Author Topic: lucas and haley are underrated  (Read 7890 times)

Offline sedge01

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2013, 05:26:56 PM »
For me i just never took to the character period, i don't know just something about him rubbed me wrong. As for the relationships i think they were all to blame not just him.

Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2013, 05:31:01 PM »
Northlights, I agree with you when you say they both kept things from each other, but I don't think those things can be compared. From the moment somebody else kisses Lucas, he has to tell Brooke about that. I understand a lot of things were happening at the time, but he still had to tell her. The same for Brooke, but telling Lucas that Peyton told her she still had feelings for him doesn't seem to have as much priority as a kiss shared between the two people who had cheated on Brooke in the past. But that's just my opinion :)

Offline Northlights

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2013, 05:41:31 PM »
I would agree with that if Brooke didn't let the confession affect their relationship. So, IMO while Lucas had to tell her about the kiss, I don't make a distinction between the two. Especially considering that Brooke resented Lucas and treated him horribly after she broke up with him because of a very thing he knew nothing about.

Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2013, 05:45:19 PM »
I agree she let that affect their relationship, but I think the resentment that came afterwards was mainly due to him not telling her about the kiss.

Offline Northlights

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2013, 06:19:22 PM »
After she found out about the kiss they shared a dance and she even kissed him, and after that she was nice to him in 401 during the break up. It seemed to me that whenever she got within 10 feet of Peyton she got nasty and took it out on Lucas who was trying to get her back at that time. But then again, the characters in season 4 didn't make much sense to me so I could be wrong.

Offline sedge01

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2013, 06:30:29 PM »
No you're somewhat right about season 4, I think my total dislike for lucas came after he thought brooke was pregnant in season 4 when she was covering for haley he just said some awful things to her, before you say anything i know she wasn't nice to him either but he was just rotten to her.

Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2013, 06:36:21 PM »
After she found out about the kiss they shared a dance and she even kissed him, and after that she was nice to him in 401 during the break up. It seemed to me that whenever she got within 10 feet of Peyton she got nasty and took it out on Lucas who was trying to get her back at that time. But then again, the characters in season 4 didn't make much sense to me so I could be wrong.

That is certainly true! LOL

Offline Northlights

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2013, 08:18:28 PM »
No you're somewhat right about season 4, I think my total dislike for lucas came after he thought brooke was pregnant in season 4 when she was covering for haley he just said some awful things to her, before you say anything i know she wasn't nice to him either but he was just rotten to her.

Exactly my point!

I didn't get the impression people disliked Lucas during season 2 and season 3, after working hard to fix his mistakes from season 1. Yet, during season 4 a lot of Brooke fans showed antagonism toward Lucas simply because of the fact that she broke up with him. Like it was somehow his fault she completely changed attitude toward him in one day, along with her fans. For example, when 316 first aired not many Brooke fans gave to much meaning to the library kiss, and later when Brooke dumped Lucas it became a huge deal so Lucas could take the blame for the failure of that relationship. Similar thing happened with Peyton fans during season 5.
Instead of holding their favorite character responsible for whatever was wrong in their lives, Lucas was often blamed. People disregarded the actions of their favorite character and judged only Lucas based on his reaction.
The only logical conclusion as to why there was never this much animosity toward Nathan is the fact that he never had a break up with Haley which could be blamed on him. ;D

Offline sedge01

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2013, 11:06:48 PM »
Well like i said they all had their own blame in this whole thing not just lucas, as for season 2 well both girls had other boyfriends so nobody had a reason to dislike luke,but i'm gonna stop talking about it cause it's all water under the bridge now they got over it maybe we should to.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:15:12 PM by sedge01 »

Offline swindellbc

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2013, 01:43:59 PM »
Exactly my point!

I didn't get the impression people disliked Lucas during season 2 and season 3, after working hard to fix his mistakes from season 1. Yet, during season 4 a lot of Brooke fans showed antagonism toward Lucas simply because of the fact that she broke up with him. Like it was somehow his fault she completely changed attitude toward him in one day, along with her fans. For example, when 316 first aired not many Brooke fans gave to much meaning to the library kiss, and later when Brooke dumped Lucas it became a huge deal so Lucas could take the blame for the failure of that relationship. Similar thing happened with Peyton fans during season 5.
Instead of holding their favorite character responsible for whatever was wrong in their lives, Lucas was often blamed. People disregarded the actions of their favorite character and judged only Lucas based on his reaction.
The only logical conclusion as to why there was never this much animosity toward Nathan is the fact that he never had a break up with Haley which could be blamed on him. ;D

Honestly, Luke rubbed me the wrong way during S1 when he was all judgy with Haley over liking Nate. It didn't last long, but the attitude just bugged me. I never really liked him to begin with so dislike of him had very little to do with Brooke or Peyton. I personally found him to be a judging and condescending whiner who  I just didn't like. Not every fan who dislikes him only dislikes him because of Brooke or Peyton. I just never found much likeable about him.

And as for the Nathan comparison, I personally just always felt that Nathan was the an all around better character. He's one of my absolute favs but he gets tons of animosity from me when he was in the wrong. There is a difference between disliking a character and disliking their actions. I have disliked Nathans actions tons of times over the years, but i still love the character. Same with Haley. As much as I understood her leaving in S2, had no issue calling her out for not being faithful, for lying to Nathan and for the way she left him and treated him that year. I also blames Nathan for their separation in S5. I have always defended Haley that season for having to deal with how awful Nathan was acting and treating her and the fact that his lies lead to their blowup. Nathan does get less animosity from some but not all. With Luke, I dislike him and his actions and I think thats the difference.

Offline Northlights

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2013, 07:36:03 PM »
The thing that bothered me about Lucas during season 1 (besides cheating) was his disrespectful treatment of Keith when Karen was in Italy. I didn't mind him being irked with Haley liking Nathan, considering Nathan was his nemesis at the time and was making his life a living hell. I think most people would be upset if they were in the same situation. And Haley did lie to him at first about tutoring Nathan. Aside from that, I did find Haley to be the most judgmental of the core 5 so it didn't bother me if she was being judged.

 

Offline swindellbc

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2013, 07:44:33 AM »
Thats because you obviously prefer Luke, I don't. So I did have an issue with him judging her, who she had feelings for was not up for his approval. He had no right at all, imo, to cop an attitude with her. I don't care what Nate did to him, that did not give Luke the right to give Haley attitude over it.

As for the most judgmental, I personally found that title being shared between the brooders. I don't think calling someone out when they are wrong is being judgmental. But copping an attitude because you don't like your BFF boyfriend and think you should get a say in her love life is judgmental. Putting yourself in the middle of another relationship and giving your irrelevant opinion as if you were the one wounded is judgmental. I can't think of a single act of Haley that could be considered even equally judgmental of Peyton's treatment of Haley in early s3, her confrontation with Brooke in late s3 and her animosity towards Lindsey who did nothing to her in s5. I just don't see how calling Luke out for being a douche for cheating on his significant others is being judgmental. A best friends tells you when you are not doing the right thing.

Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2013, 10:43:13 AM »
Though I understand where Haley was coming from, I do think she was judgmental whenever it came to LP. I get that she's Lucas' best friend and only wanted the best for him, but she still meddled into something that wasn't really her business, which was his best friend's love life, even if she had the best interest at heart. And she's my favorite character. Other than that, I think those were the only things she did that made her come across as being judgmental.

And Haley did lie to him at first about tutoring Nathan. Aside from that, I did find Haley to be the most judgmental of the core 5 so it didn't bother me if she was being judged.

But Haley lied to Lucas for his own good, so that Nathan and his friends would leave him alone. Had she told Lucas and he wouldn't let her do it. I don't think that can be compared to Lucas being annoyed that she had fallen for Nathan. And I must say that I don't really think Lucas was judgmental then. I haven't watched S1 in a while so I may be forgetting something, but didn't he look annoyed at first and then told her he understood and even tried to cheer her up when she was crying at the cafe, because of Nathan? If that was the scene you guys were talking about, I don't think he was being judgmental there. Now if you're talking about later on in season 1 when he's plain mean to Haley and gets all upset that she's become a cheerleader and is no longer "herself", that was totally judgmental and hypocrite, because Lucas himself was now part of the popular crowd, probably even more than Haley at that point.

As for the bolded part, I don't agree with that and that's totally fine, but that still doesn't excuse or makes what other characters did to her right.

I can't think of a single act of Haley that could be considered even equally judgmental of Peyton's treatment of Haley in early s3, her confrontation with Brooke in late s3 and her animosity towards Lindsey who did nothing to her in s5.

Yeah, I agree with that. I think all characters were judgmental at a certain point, but, to me, Peyton takes the cake as far as that goes.

Offline swindellbc

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2013, 11:02:33 AM »
To me she wasn't messing with LP or butting into their relationship, she was being a good person who acknowledges that cheating on a significant other is wrong. Haley didn't care about Lucas liking Peyton, she cared that he was stringing girls along and hurting them (something she felt was  beneath him). I love that she confronted Luke because he had no problem cheating on Brooke even though it was breaking her heart. And I'll never agree that she was wrong in S5. At the end of the day, Lindsey was her friend and it made sense that she'd be looking out for the best interest of both of her friends. I just don't see telling Lucas to do the right thing was judging him. At the end of the day, as Luke's BFF she was right to tell him to watch what he was doing. I'm in the mind of as if you're not hurting anyone, your relationship is none of my business.  But if you actions are hurting someone I consider a friends/care about/just know, I'm going to speak up. Naley getting together hurt no one. Leyton sneaking around and cheating was hurting other people and I don't think anyone is judgmental for speaking up about something you feel as wrong.


As for the s1 scene. I did mean that initial scene. Like I said, it was mild and quick but the reason that Luke was annoyed at all is because he was judging Haley. He didn't think she should be with Nathan(not because of the person Nathan was) but because his own Scott issues. Did he get over it quick and support Haley? Sure but I didn't care because like I said. I didn't care for his character to begin with so that minor scene just earned a major eyeroll. The other scenes you brought up was a huge and pivotal reason for I disliked Luke. They just reinforced what I already disliked about him. But those scenes were not the start of it so thats why I didn't mention it. I have not really care for Lucas at all. Its just little scenes like the first one I mentioned and huge moments like the one you mentioned that were just added to list of reasons I was never really a Lucas Scott fan.

Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: lucas and haley are underrated
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2013, 12:11:22 PM »
I respect your opinion and it's a completely valid way to look at those scenes, swindellbc. I still think Haley was worrying about something it wasn't her business as it concerned Lucas' love life. Only because of that. As I said before, I totally understand why she did it and I probably would've done the same thing.

At the end of the day, as Luke's BFF she was right to tell him to watch what he was doing. I'm in the mind of as if you're not hurting anyone, your relationship is none of my business.  But if you actions are hurting someone I consider a friends/care about/just know, I'm going to speak up.

I see it as being judgmental because Haley was still calling out on Luke for something she believed was wrong. And I completely agree with her, I just don't think that having all the reason in the world stops that from being a judgmental behavior. Other than that, I completely agree with everything else you've said.