Author Topic: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed  (Read 7102 times)

Offline HaleyScott23

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Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« on: September 08, 2011, 05:03:13 PM »
So I usually lurk a lot at Fanforum especially at Joy, James and OTH's board and on the NH thread, over at Joy Fanforum, someone said this and it caught my attention:

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It just seems to me Nathan is always forgiven way too fast (by Haley and by the fans) whenever he screws up while Haley is still being crucified years later for a mistake she did when the dinossaurs still existed. It's not fair at all, especially when I tend to think that Nathan, in season 5, screwed up as much as Haley in season 2. Compare the fans reaction to both? Completely unfair. And some even say Haley's the one to blame for everything that went down between them in that season. LOL

I'm one of the people who thinks both NH were at fault both in season 2 and season 5 because when there are problems in marriages the couples are a team and both are at fault if something's not right. That's the part of that statement I don't agree with. I know some people don't like to compare season 2 to season 5 but I'm not one of those people. I just feel like these are the seasons which caused most trouble for NH and the ones where we can analyze their individual behaviour in the relationship.

But I do agree when this person says the fans and Haley forgive Nathan way too fast while Haley is still getting called out on the mistake she did in season 2.

I like Nathan, he's one of my favourite characters and this is in no way an anti-Nathan thread. I just want to have a good and respectful discussion about this :)

Some examples of Nathan screwing up over the years: in season 1 he was looking at Peyton's webcam and taking and saving pictures of her getting out of the shower (which, to me, is just unacceptable when you have a girlfriend) and Haley forgave him in that same episode (after he lied to her about it). The fans also seem to have sort of forgotten this.

In season 2, I can understand his actions with the whole Chris thing but I think it was extremely low of him to go to Taylor so he could get back at Haley. Thank God he didn't do anything but it really disappoints me that he really wanted to seek revenge to Haley, that's just horrible, imo.

Then in season 4 he almost killed his wife and son and Haley forgave him in ONE episode. I'm not saying she should've been mad at him for ages but at least a little bit more. We're not exactly talking about a little mistake. Of course we have to have in mind he got in that whole thing with Daunte for Haley and Jamie but still... it wasn't very smart on his part, imo.

In season 5, I won't even comment because Nathan just makes my blood boil in this season. Not so much for his depression (sure he was an ass for ignoring his family for 4 months but it was still somewhat understandable considering his past with basketball) but for the whole Carrie thing. Just... no comments. Even there I think Haley forgave him way too fast. Like way. Had it been me and I would've kicked him out for a lot more than just a month.

Then in season 7 he obviously didn't sleep with Renee. But it bothers me that while Haley stayed at home and taking care of his child, Nathan was out, partying and getting wasted. I'm not saying he's not allowed to do that. He is and he's young but he should be more careful. Like Haley said, whatever he does won't affect just him but his entire family. And I don't find it appropriate at all that a married man who's being accused of getting some other girl other pregnant poses for commercials semi naked with other actresses in lingerie and touching him. What would people think of him? And why did theses commercials even happened if Clay later said Nathan was known for his image of being a family man? It doesn't make any sense and I don't understand why Nathan accepted participating in these things, much less do I understand why Haley was okay with it.

And that's basically it. I just feel like the majority of the fans tend to protect Nathan a lot more than Haley when it comes to the NH relationship. And it particularly bugs me when I come across people who say things like "Oh Nathan screwed up. But he's so hot that I just can't get mad at him". Seriously? ;D

I posted this on the season 5 section because I think this was the season where he made onne of his biggest mistakes and I personally think it's the one a lot of fans let go very easily.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 05:08:15 PM by HaleyScott23 »

Offline trinalynne

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 05:50:52 PM »
in season 1 he was looking at Peyton's webcam and taking and saving pictures of her getting out of the shower (which, to me, is just unacceptable when you have a girlfriend) and Haley forgave him in that same episode (after he lied to her about it). The fans also seem to have sort of forgotten this.

As far as this one goes...Nathan explained that the pictures were from when he and Peyton were still together. He just never got around to deleting them. While I would probably still have a hard time with it much longer than Haley did and probably feel very self conscious because of it, I also understand why he was forgiven. He technically didn't really do anything wrong accept for forgetting to delete them.
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Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 05:58:57 PM »
As far as this one goes...Nathan explained that the pictures were from when he and Peyton were still together. He just never got around to deleting them. While I would probably still have a hard time with it much longer than Haley did and probably feel very self conscious because of it, I also understand why he was forgiven. He technically didn't really do anything wrong accept for forgetting to delete them.

Interesting. I always thought he lied to Haley because in the same episode we see Peyton getting out of the shower and with her webcam on and I just assumed the pictures were from that same day while Nathan told Haley they were from a while ago and that Peyton didn't have her webcam on the closet for a long time which wasn't true. That's why I always thought he was lying and that he had taken the pics in that exact same day. Maybe it was a mistake of the show? Because I always thought he was lying to Haley and that she forgave him based on a lie he told her  :-?

Offline trinalynne

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 06:00:59 PM »
Hmmm I never noticed that. I never got the impression that he was lying to her about it, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
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Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 06:04:53 PM »
I thought that and never even thought he could be telling the truth. But it's possible, maybe those things with Peyton were just a coincidence? I don't know.

Offline cdeal94

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 07:34:47 PM »
I don't think Nathan was looking at those pictures of Peyton when he was with Haley. I never got the idea he was lying.

As far as season 2 goes, all on Haley. She should have asked Nathan to go with her. He was clearly happy for her when he found out, & he would have supported her. Nathan had every right to get pissed at his wife for leaving him to go on tour with a guy she kissed. WITHOUT her husband. & she didn't deny on national television she was dating Chris Keller. I mean, we know she wasn't, but she never said she was married or anything when Chris says "The music can't lie" or whatever. & after all that, Nathan drives all that way to go see her, & what does Haley do? She says things were rushed & she isn't wearing her ring. Nathan looked past all the shit she did. Told her he would go with her, wait for her, anything. It was a low blow of Nathan to go see Taylor, no doubt. But he wanted to hurt Haley like she hurt him. But, in the end he didn't even do anything with her. Haley definitely screwed up MAJOR.

The whole deal with Nathan/Daunte..It was an EXTREMELY dumb move on Nathans part to get involved with a loan shark, so dumb. But he was a senior in high school, married, kid on the way, struggling for money, & was getting almost no help financially. He wasn't thinking straight. He did what he thought was the best/only option at the time. Maybe Haley did forgive him too fast, but the fact that he was truly sorry was clear. & at least he fessed up to doing it.

Season 5..The depression is understandable. He did suck a little bit for the way he treated his family, but he had his entire dream ripped away from him for such a dumb decision. He fixed himself, though. & far as the whole Carrie thing goes, Nathan was an idiot. I think he explained himself pretty well in his reasons when him & Haley went to marriage counseling. The Haley/Chris situation is far worse to me then the Nathan/Carrie. Haley had feelings for Chris, maybe it wasn't "love-like" feelings, but it was feelings nonetheless. There was a part of her that truly cared for him. They also kissed TWICE. & Haley kissed him back. When Carrie kissed Nathan, he kind of just stood there. I know, they were older when Nathan/Carrie happened, but there's still no excuse for Haley did. She was married. & in Nathan's defense, he was going to tell Haley about Carrie. But Carrie walked in saying she was quitting. So I always kind of assumed Nathan just thought it would all be over, & there would be no need to cause drama. Nathan no doubt had his stupid moments in s5, but I honestly think that he got the time out he deserved.

S7, I don't see a problem with him going out & drinking. He was still so young. I'm also assuming he only did it when he had away games. Why should he go sit in his hotel room when he can go out & have a good time? He never cheated on Haley or did anything that would make him a bad husband/father. There also shouldn't be an issue with him giving fans pictures. It's not like he was prepared for some whore to go out & accuse him of getting her pregnant. Maybe he shouldn't take pictures with alcoholic beverages in hand, but there's no issue with him taking just fan pictures. I also don't see a problem with Nathan's commercials. Like, the thought never crossed my mind. Lol. I think you can still be considered a family man & do advertising. Especially since he's just advertising body spray. I don't think the semi nudity is a big deal, tbh. This is the 21st century. Haha.

This is just my opinion, though. I'm sure people will think I'm being biast, but I'm totally not.
But yeah.. this is just my opinion.

Offline trinalynne

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 07:56:53 PM »
I pretty much agree with everything that Carrie said accept for I was a little more angry at season 5 Nathan with the whole Nanny Carrie situation. I hated that he kept it from Haley, and although he was going to tell her, he didn't confess until Carrie ratted him out and I didn't think that was right. I also hated that it took Carrie climbing into the shower with him for him to tell her to get lost (and even then I wish we got to see him really yell at her). He should have told her to leave him alone long before that, especially when she kissed him. Instead he just stood there like he was incapable of pushing her away or telling her that he's a married man and she needs stop and that infuriated me.
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Offline cdeal94

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 09:38:47 PM »
^You're right. Nathan definitely should have said something. But he did give a pretty good reasoning in 5x13. When he said "Maybe I needed it. You don't look at me like that anymore. & I know I haven't been worthy of that look in a long time, but I miss that." There's really nothing that can fully justify Nathan's actions, but I can understand where he was coming from a little bit.

Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 06:01:50 AM »

Season 2--The only time I had a problem with Nathan was with the whole Taylor aspect--before and after Haley left.  I do think it was wrong of Nathan to invite Taylor to stay with them when he knew how upset Haley was with it.  That should have been something they discussed together as a married couple.  That wasn't fair to Haley.  With the whole tour thing, I fully supported Haley going.  This was an amazing chance for her, and I think she had every right to take it.  The only time I wasn't on Haley's side to this was her involvement with Chris.  She acted childish and selfishly when it came to his involvement, and I lost some respect for her during that time.  And in terms of asking Nathan to come along--should she have?  Yes, she should have.  But I don't hold that against her.  I do love the double standards, though between Nathan and Haley.  In season 4, people justify Nathan's actions in terms of the Daunte situation by saying that he was a young, naive kid still.  Well, can't we say the same about Haley in terms of not asking Nathan to come with her?  I mean, she was ALSO a young, naive kid at that time as well.  She made a mistake, and she admitted it.  And she apologized.  She more than made up for everything.


Exactly. It's exactly this I'm talking about. Some people excuse Nathan's mistakes by saying he was young and naive but when it comes to Haley in season 2 they don't even stop for a while to think she was 16. Why is age an excuse for Nathan and not for Haley?

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As far as season 2 goes, all on Haley. She should have asked Nathan to go with her. He was clearly happy for her when he found out, & he would have supported her. Nathan had every right to get pissed at his wife for leaving him to go on tour with a guy she kissed. WITHOUT her husband. & she didn't deny on national television she was dating Chris Keller. I mean, we know she wasn't, but she never said she was married or anything when Chris says "The music can't lie" or whatever. & after all that, Nathan drives all that way to go see her, & what does Haley do? She says things were rushed & she isn't wearing her ring. Nathan looked past all the [Censored] she did. Told her he would go with her, wait for her, anything. It was a low blow of Nathan to go see Taylor, no doubt. But he wanted to hurt Haley like she hurt him. But, in the end he didn't even do anything with her. Haley definitely screwed up MAJOR.

I agree. I never said it wasn't Haley's fault in season 2. But I'm happy to see you agree with me on the Nathan/Taylor part. It was low of Nathan to even think about it.

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Season 5..The depression is understandable. He did suck a little bit for the way he treated his family, but he had his entire dream ripped away from him for such a dumb decision. He fixed himself, though. & far as the whole Carrie thing goes, Nathan was an idiot. I think he explained himself pretty well in his reasons when him & Haley went to marriage counseling. The Haley/Chris situation is far worse to me then the Nathan/Carrie. Haley had feelings for Chris, maybe it wasn't "love-like" feelings, but it was feelings nonetheless. There was a part of her that truly cared for him. They also kissed TWICE. & Haley kissed him back. When Carrie kissed Nathan, he kind of just stood there. I know, they were older when Nathan/Carrie happened, but there's still no excuse for Haley did. She was married. & in Nathan's defense, he was going to tell Haley about Carrie. But Carrie walked in saying she was quitting. So I always kind of assumed Nathan just thought it would all be over, & there would be no need to cause drama. Nathan no doubt had his stupid moments in s5, but I honestly think that he got the time out he deserved.


I must be the one who never saw Haley having feelings for Chris other than some sort of jealousy for what he had as far as music is concerned. And the first time they kiss, it was Chris kissing her and Haley didn't kiss him back. The second time, it was so quick and the shot was so weird that I think no one can really say Haley was the one kissing him or that she kissed him back. That's another thing, in season 2 Haley kissed Chris when we actually can't say that and in season 5 it was Carrie who kissed Nathan. And it was, no doubt about that but why do people say it was Haley who kissed Chris when we never saw that? I don't understand. And I think Haley explained herself very well in season 3 that she never had feelings for Chris. If we say she had, we can also say Nathan didn't have "love-like" feelings for Carrie but he had feelings nonetheless because she was their nannie and had been with them for a while before she put the moves on him. Just like Haley had sympathy for Carrie at the beginning. So going by that we can also say Nathan had feelings for Carrie, not "love-like" feelings, but he still had feelings for her.

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The Nanny Carrie situation--again, Nathan's fault.  The whole shower incident may not have been his fault, but he definitely could have prevented it.  He knew Carrie was flirting with him, and he never did anything about it.  He saw Carrie swimming naked in their pool, and he never did anything about it.  Some can argue that he confronted Carrie about it, but what good did it do?  None.  She still acted inappropriately.  He should have been a man and talked to Haley about everything that was going on.  She's his wife, and she had every right to know what kind of person she hired to not only take care of their son but to be around her husband.  What was she supposed to do?  Read Nathan's mind?  No--he should have been honest and upfront.  And he should have been more forceful with Carrie and the next time something happened, he should have fired her and thrown her ass out the door.  And as soon as that kiss happened, he should have fired her and then told Haley as soon as she walked through the door.  I don't care that he was "going" to tell Haley--it never should have gotten to that point.  I cheered for Haley in everything she did in season 5.  IMO, she didn't do a single thing wrong.  And I agree that she forgave him way too quickly.  Don't get me wrong, 5.13 is one of my favorite episodes for Naley...but I do think she forgave him too quickly.

This. Nathan is not an idiot, he knew perfectly well what Carrie was trying to get at and still he did NOTHING about it. He would tell her from times to times she was being unprofessional but what else did he do to actually put her in place? As soon as she kissed him (I think standing there looking like a dufus and not do anything about it is equally bad), he should've kicked her out and even when she climbed on the shower with him he didn't yell at her.
He should've told Haley everything Carrie was doing, just like Haley should've told Nathan about the kiss with Chris.

IMO, the Carrie incident was as bad as the whole Haley/Chris thing. They both hid things from each other and let other people cross boundaries. Haley didn't go on tour for Chris. She went for the music, because it was her dream as she more than explained herself in season 3. I think after establishing that, we can honestly say the incidents in season 2 and 5 were equally bad, imo.

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I don't think the semi nudity is a big deal, tbh. This is the 21st century. Haha.

I'm not saying the semi nudity is a problem itself. I don't think it is but when you are being accused of something with the dimension that Nathan was I just think it doesn't look very good for your image to do commercials like that. It's the timing and the circumstances, not the semi nudity itself. I don't blame Nathan for the Renee thing at all but he should have been more careful. He knows there are groupies following him everywhere, I'm sure of that and with his decisions affecting his family, he should be more careful.

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Season 7--I don't really know how I feel about the whole Renee situation.  I definitely don't think it's Nathan's fault, but I do agree on some level that he had no business drinking and partying the way he did that night with Clay.  Does that constitute me blaming Nathan for the Renee mess?  No.  I think he was just being kind of stupid and immature.  But after that...I don't really blame Nathan necessarily for anything else.


It's what Sam said, really.

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do hate the hypocritical double standards when it comes to "Haley vs Nathan" and "season 2 vs season 5".  I swear Haley gets put on this freaken pedestal and if she falls down--"OH NO, THE WORLD HAS ENDED!"  And she's the biggest b.... and whore (yes, I've hear that one before).  But if Nathan does something, it's like, "Oh, it's okay.  He made a mistake--a horrible one, but he didn't mean to.  It's okay."  Some may say that I'm biased since Haley's my favorite character, but Nathan is also a favorite of mine.  And I feel like I'm objective enough to see BOTH of their mistakes and everything.


I feel the same. Haley is my favourite but Nathan is my second favourite and I love them both so I can honestly say I'm not being biased. I never denied it was Haley's fault in season 2, just like I think it was all Nathan's fault in season 5.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 04:27:29 PM by HaleyScott23 »

Offline John

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 07:13:53 AM »
Iím gone for a while and I get back to threads like these. Great!

Look, Iíve been around this fandom ever since 2003. Iíve been here with another account and on other forums as well and I always had stupid and ridiculous discussions with other members: something Iíve learnt? Thereís no use to discuss because some people are so blind by their love for a character that they just canít accept when others say bad things about their beloved characters.
 
Another thing I also learnt is that in every couple thereís a target and a poor little thing. In Nathan/Haleyís case, Haleyís always been the target and Nathan the poor little thing. That means that Nathan can do whatever the hell he wants to that heíll always be protected by his fans, no matter what. And when Haley does the tiniest little thing (not talking about season 2), she gets all the crap thrown at her.

And sure there are some Haley crazy fans that always protect her, no doubt about it. But I never heard a Haley fan say she wasnít at fault in season 2 the way some Nathan fans say he wasnít at fault in season 5 (this didnít happen in here but there are Nathan fans who blame Haley for what he did in season 5: dellusional).

Now to the real deal: in season 2 Haley was wrong, wrong, wrong. I really couldnít care less if she kissed Chris or Chris kissed her, just like I donít care if it was Nathan who kissed Carrie or Carrie who kissed Nathan because the thing isÖ both Nathan and Haley put themselves in a position where Chris and Carrie could do what they wanted when they shouldíve been put in place long before. In that sense, both situations are equally bad.

Haley went on tour with Chris, which isnít the same that going on tour for Chris, like HaleyScott23 said. Do I agree with the way she did things? No, absolutely not. Haleyís dream was to pursue a musical career and we canít say she didnít deny being with Chris because the interviewer interrupted them before she even said anything so why are we saying she didnít deny it? Maybe she did or maybe she didnít. We could state with all certainty she didnít if we had watched the entire thing. Since we didnítÖ And Haley knew Nathan was watching so it wouldnít make any sense for her not to deny it. But if she didn't... wrong of her.

The things Haley did wrong in season 2 were letting Chris get closer to her (which she always thought was for their musical work together; Chris never flirted with her and made OBVIOUS moves on her before he kissed her) and leaving Nathan the way she did, without telling him anything about it. These are her major mistakes in season 2.

In season 5 Nathan was a crying baby. I wonít comment on his depression because it was somewhat understandable, although he was extremely immature and selfish. One of the reasons why I hate 5x13 is because the things Nathan says to explain his behavior are just non-sensical.

So your wife doesnít look at you anymore like she used to and the poor baby has to find that from someone else so he can feel special again? Please, grow up. Only this show could blame Haley for Nathan liking Carrieís attention. His marriage was on the rocks because of his idiotic attitude where he ignored his wife and son for 4 months straight. What do you want, Nate? For her to look at you like none of that had happened? Nathan had been trying, of course but you just canít expect your spouse to overcome such a traumatic situation like that in one day. Itís not a day, not a week or two. Itís a lot more.

Of course Haley was still hurt by what he had done so she obviously wouldnít look at him like she used to anymore. Because of who? Nathan himself and him saying he wasnít worthy of that look anymore was the most accurate thing he said in that office, thatís why I donít get him. He knows Haley doesnít look at him anymore like she used to because of what he did. So what if you actually try to improve your marriage, work for having your wife look at you the same way again instead of playing with the nanny in the pool, watching her swim naked or seeing her throwing herself at you, huh? And why donít you put her in place like a real man would do (something along the lines ďBitch, Iím married and youíre getting your ass out of here now.Ē)?

But no. Carrie walks in on the pool and Nathan stops playing with Jamie to start playing with the nanny? Inappropriate.

Carrie walks in on his and Haleyís bedroom, a sacred place for them, and puts his pants on? Inappropriate. Nathanís reaction? :-X Then Carrie clearly flirts with him. Nathanís reaction? :-X

He watches Carrie swim naked when he knows how much sheís disrespecting his wife. Nathanís reaction? :-X He knows Jamie can see Carrie like that. Nathanís reaction? :-X

Jamie calls Carrie ďmommaĒ. Nathanís reaction? :-X

Carrie kisses him. Nathanís reaction? :-X

Haley asks Nathan if thereís more to it than just the flirting. Nathanís reaction? :-X

Nathanís a guy and even the most innocent guy in the world would realize what Carrie wanted with those things. But I guess the poor babyís ego was so bruised that he had to get a boost anywhere, even if he knew. I wonder if NH had hired a granny for a babysitterÖ Iím sure that even if the granny flirted with Nathan he would throw up in the next instant and his theory of the ďI need an ego boostĒ would go down the flush. Aww :í(

Nathan had three options: Being a real man and try and save his marriage instead of giving the nanny more attention which would mean he could only get that ego boost from the woman he loves and a slut doing that wouldnít do him anything (which was what should've happened). Being a boy, which was what he was, and think it was okay to have a little fun with the attention the nanny gave him because he needed that ego boost. Or being a coward and cheat on his wife.
 
I donít like to compare season 2 and season 5 but Iím with HaleyScott23 on this one. Theyíre equally bad. Haley put music over Nathan in season 2. And in season 5 Nathan put the nanny over Haley by letting her overstep his wife and disrespect her. Whatís worse? Iíll leave that to you.

Iím a NH fan but Iím a Haley fan first and I can honestly say Haley is too good for Nathan. She deserved a lot better, imo. And even Joy says the same thing ;D But of course Iím being biased because I always thought Nathan was an ass. See? I actually admit Iím being biased.

But I agree with what the OP says. The double-standards for Nathan & Haley are ridiculous.


Offline gophergirl21

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 11:57:48 AM »
Like many of you, I hate comparing what Haley did in Season 2 to what Nathan did in Season 5. It's just stupid in my mind to play the "Which one is worse?" game. They were both wrong and at fault. The end. And this is coming from someone who like Nathan the best as a character, with Haley a close second.

As for Season 7, I can't really find much fault for Nathan in the Renee situation. I mean he just took a picture with some girls. Maybe he shouldn't have been drinking that much, but he didn't really do anything wrong. I was actually proud of him that season for standing up and refusing to pay her. He knew he did nothing wrong and wouldn't give in to the pressure.
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Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 12:11:48 PM »
I definitely didn't want to turn this into a "who is worse"' type of thing. I just wanted to talk about the double-standards, if you notice that happens or not.

Offline gophergirl21

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 12:25:24 PM »
^Oh I know you didn't. I guess I am just venting frustration because I have seen this topic turn into that quite a bit. :)

As for double standards, I think it depends on the individual person. Some fans will defend their favorites and find little fault with what they do and often excuse it away. Some others can admit when their favorites screw up and did something wrong. I freely admit I am biased towards Nathan at times, but I can admit when he does something he shouldn't. I think part of the reason why this whole forgiveness too fast thing could be analyzed is looking at who is doing the forgiving. Haley was always been a great person. She forgives people easier than Nathan in my opinion. He strikes me as a typical guy who holds onto things for longer than he should and doesn't just move on as easily. On the other hand, Haley always sees the good in people and likes to think that they can be that person.

And John, I guess I can see your point that Haley is too good for Nathan. If I was just looking at the beginning of their relationship I might agree, but considering everything I think Nathan turned out to be a pretty great person and good enough for Haley. But that's just my opinion.
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Offline HaleyScott23

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 04:23:54 PM »
^Oh I know you didn't. I guess I am just venting frustration because I have seen this topic turn into that quite a bit. :)

As for double standards, I think it depends on the individual person. Some fans will defend their favorites and find little fault with what they do and often excuse it away. Some others can admit when their favorites screw up and did something wrong. I freely admit I am biased towards Nathan at times, but I can admit when he does something he shouldn't. I think part of the reason why this whole forgiveness too fast thing could be analyzed is looking at who is doing the forgiving. Haley was always been a great person. She forgives people easier than Nathan in my opinion. He strikes me as a typical guy who holds onto things for longer than he should and doesn't just move on as easily. On the other hand, Haley always sees the good in people and likes to think that they can be that person.


Yeah, I agree. It depends a lot on the person, of course.

I want to be clear and say I love Nathan, I'm just trying to have a calm and nice discussion, please don't bring all the snark remarks here, I think we can all handle this without having to use that :)

John, I can honestly say I don't understand how you ship NH and think Haley's too good for Nathan. I, at least, can only ship couple when I love both characters and think they're just right for each other. There were times when Nathan screwed up and times where Haley screwed up. But what they did then to save their marriage and love is proof enough that they are good for each other and deserve each other. IMO.

Offline cdeal94

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Re: Nathan&Haley- Something I've noticed
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2011, 05:29:32 PM »
I really hope this doesn't turn into a thread with a lot of bitching back & forth. Haha.

John, I can honestly say I don't understand how you ship NH and think Haley's too good for Nathan. I, at least, can only ship couple when I love both characters and think they're just right for each other. There were times when Nathan screwed up and times where Haley screwed up. But what they did then to save their marriage and love is proof enough that they are good for each other and deserve each other. IMO.

This. & in the beginning, Nathan was a pretty shitty person. But he grew up A LOT & became such a greater person because of Haley & how much he cared for her. I don't in anyway think Haley is too good for Nathan. I think they balance each other out perfectly.