Author Topic: Brooke at the beginning  (Read 11115 times)

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2013, 11:45:54 AM »
I suppose when Julian first appeared in season 6 he was meant to create trouble for Leyton so that's why he was at least interesting...and after that the writers put him in a Brooke bubble and took away all of his personality. They tried to hard to create the perfect man for Brooke and the idea backfired IMO. To me, Brulian was incredibly boring and I did not care at all about their, most of the time ridiculous issues.

While I don't have preferences regarding the relationships on the show, I do have to find them realistic and believable to pay attention to them or invest myself in the storyline. That's why Lucas lost all credibility with me when he had another "moment of clarity" in 409. And I really didn't see Lucas as a douche in season 3 relationship with Brooke, unlike all of his other relationships. It was nice to see the build up since the first half of season 2, he truly worked his ass off to repair the damage and start over. Brooke was the unreasonable one who, at times, acted irrationally and childish. Near the end of season 3 she came to her senses, or at least it seemed so... I don't put any blame on Lucas for Brucas breakup that time. I was actually surprised with all the things he put up with most of the time. Not many guys would do that. But overall, I think that this relationship is the closest that Brooke ever got to being in a realistic relationship...two equals...

Offline HaleyFan88

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2013, 11:51:24 AM »
Yes, I agree with Lucas not being a douche in season 3.  I don't think he was the problem at all during their relationships - I blame it all on Brooke honestly.  I was speaking in general - ever since the BLP triangle in season 1 and now having watched all the seasons, I think Lucas is mostly a douche in his relationships - season 3 aside.

Yeah, if I were Lucas and Brooke treated me the way she was, I would have run for the hills.  She's not worth it for me.  Brooke's problem is that she will ALWAYS use the past against him.  While I think Leyton were very wrong in season 1, I don't think it's fair that she constantly call them out on that.  And I do not believe the library kiss in 316 was cheating considering the circumstances.  I can understand Brooke being upset about not being told about it because that might make it appear a little shady but her blowing up over the kiss itself was ridiculous.  And that's what led to her character assassination in season 4.

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2013, 01:49:52 PM »
I get why Lucas stayed with her and why he jumped through all the hoops, he was really in love with her. It was obvious to everybody but Brooke it seems. I don't understand why he didn't call her on her crap in season 4 when she showed up at his door, though....

Brooke holding grudges was one of the reasons why she went from being my favorite character to me not really caring what happened to her.  I find it ironic how she was offended that Lucas brought up Chris Keller during their argument while she was making a scene because of something that had very much to do with Lucas' past that she "forgave" him for.

It's unfortunate that Mark could not find a way to redeem Peyton with her doing something to dig herself up from the whole he put her in, but instead decided to even the playing field by massacring Brooke's character.

Offline HaleyFan88

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2013, 01:16:09 PM »
Yeah, it was clear he was in love with Brooke (another reason Lucas annoyed me - the dude fell in and out of love so often).  Brooke was just constantly doubting it.  Like Lucas said in 322, it's like she has been looking for reasons to push him away.  And I never understood her "I'm not pushing you away; I'm holding onto you for deal life" line.  I didn't see it that way at all.  While I think Brooke loved him dearly, she never fought for him - like truly fought for him.  I loved what Lucas said in 403, and I wish he would have said more.  Brooke never fully forgave Lucas for what happened in season 1 - if she did, she wouldn't have constantly used it against him.  For all of Lucas's faults, he didn't deserve that.  He made up for the cheating and he proved his love for her.  But her annoying insecurities always overshadowed everything.  I get them considering he was the first guy she opened up to for more than sex and he broke her heart but enough is enough.  You can't use that as a scapegoat for the rest of your life.  It's true that you can forgive but can't always forget.  But if you're gonna start trusting someone and start over, you've gotta forgive completely or it'll never work out.  It's not fair to keep the past tucked away in your back pocket and pull it out whenever you feel like it.  I was happy when Lucas brought Chris up because I personally felt like they never truly dealt with it.  Brooke brought on the waterworks and gave her sob story and he just forgives her.  Even after that moment, they never talked about it in a proper way.  Brooke hopped onto her santimonious, hypocritical high horse and became queen bitch in OTH season 4.

Your last paragraph is something that always infuriated me.  I'm a Peyton fan more than a Brooke fan.  I didn't need the playing field to be leveled.  Peyton made her mistakes throughout the first three seasons but I also feel like she made up for them.  Do I think she should have told Brooke about her feelings for Lucas - no, I don't.  But at the same time, I can't completely fault her because she wanted to be honest with her friend unlike the last time.  At least, I believe that.  And I believed her when she said she wasn't gonna do anything about it but I also can't fault Brooke for having a difficult time believing that one considering everything.  And Peyton, while I love her, did kind of deserve that slap because it wasn't fair of her to twist Brooke's words about the way she did with the "missing him" comment.  I also don't need the playing field leveled because I feel like Brooke made just as many mistakes as Peyton did throughout the first three seasons.  Why did there have to be a sex tape between Nathan and Brooke to just suddenly and randomly pop up out of nowhere - it's obvious that whole storyline was designed to make Brooke look just as bad.  There was no reason for it.  Some can argue that it makes sense that the two would have hooked up at least once in high school considering their histories - okay, that may be true but the reason for the storyline wasn't about that.  It was all about Breyton.  And I won't lie - the Naley lover in me was super annoyed that Mark had to freaking drap Nathan (and by default Haley) into Brooke and Peyton's nonsense just to "even the field".  And for me, it did further massacre Brooke's character.  Yes, Nathan and Peyton were broken up but as Brooke knew and acknowledged, they broke up all the time.  Not to mention, Nathan and Brooke hooked up like two seconds after they "broke up" so Brooke was just as bad/wrong as Leyton were in season 1, IMO.  After all the crap Brooke has thrown out, Peyton had every right to be angry and punch the girl in the face.  It just ticked me off that Mark had to reduce Brooke in order to "redeem" Peyton.

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2013, 02:36:04 PM »
Yeah, it was clear he was in love with Brooke (another reason Lucas annoyed me - the dude fell in and out of love so often).  Brooke was just constantly doubting it.  Like Lucas said in 322, it's like she has been looking for reasons to push him away.  And I never understood her "I'm not pushing you away; I'm holding onto you for deal life" line.  I didn't see it that way at all.  While I think Brooke loved him dearly, she never fought for him - like truly fought for him.  I loved what Lucas said in 403, and I wish he would have said more.  Brooke never fully forgave Lucas for what happened in season 1 - if she did, she wouldn't have constantly used it against him.  For all of Lucas's faults, he didn't deserve that.  He made up for the cheating and he proved his love for her.  But her annoying insecurities always overshadowed everything.  I get them considering he was the first guy she opened up to for more than sex and he broke her heart but enough is enough.  You can't use that as a scapegoat for the rest of your life.  It's true that you can forgive but can't always forget.  But if you're gonna start trusting someone and start over, you've gotta forgive completely or it'll never work out.  It's not fair to keep the past tucked away in your back pocket and pull it out whenever you feel like it.  I was happy when Lucas brought Chris up because I personally felt like they never truly dealt with it.  Brooke brought on the waterworks and gave her sob story and he just forgives her.  Even after that moment, they never talked about it in a proper way.  Brooke hopped onto her santimonious, hypocritical high horse and became queen bitch in OTH season 4.

We are in complete agreement about this. I think I said it before, but the whole argument in 322 didn't make much sense to me. At least not the things Brooke was saying. Wasn't she the one constantly walking out on Lucas when she jumped to the wrong conclusions or assumed he did something even slightly wrong? How is that holding for dear life? It looked more like Lucas was holding for dear life and Brooke always with one foot in and one foot out of their relationship. And while I understand why she didn't fight for him in the beginning of season 3 and after the Keller incident, I can't help but wonder what prevented her from doing so later on in their relationship. And the right time would have been about the time she dumped him. That was the first bump on the road and instead of fighting, to paraphrase Brooke herself, she left a Brooke shaped hole in his doors. Maybe a week or so later she started a new relationship and seemed perfectly content with the way things were. So, in season 4 I couldn't really sympathize with her regarding the triangle situation because I wasn't convinced she was even hurt by everything. She certainly looked cherry and bubbly talking about the new earrings, making fun of Lucas' gift, flirting with random guys... And even if she was hurt and I didn't see it, it was her own doing, IMO.

Your last paragraph is something that always infuriated me.  I'm a Peyton fan more than a Brooke fan.  I didn't need the playing field to be leveled.  Peyton made her mistakes throughout the first three seasons but I also feel like she made up for them.  Do I think she should have told Brooke about her feelings for Lucas - no, I don't.  But at the same time, I can't completely fault her because she wanted to be honest with her friend unlike the last time.  At least, I believe that.  And I believed her when she said she wasn't gonna do anything about it but I also can't fault Brooke for having a difficult time believing that one considering everything.  And Peyton, while I love her, did kind of deserve that slap because it wasn't fair of her to twist Brooke's words about the way she did with the "missing him" comment.  I also don't need the playing field leveled because I feel like Brooke made just as many mistakes as Peyton did throughout the first three seasons.  Why did there have to be a sex tape between Nathan and Brooke to just suddenly and randomly pop up out of nowhere - it's obvious that whole storyline was designed to make Brooke look just as bad.  There was no reason for it.  Some can argue that it makes sense that the two would have hooked up at least once in high school considering their histories - okay, that may be true but the reason for the storyline wasn't about that.  It was all about Breyton.  And I won't lie - the Naley lover in me was super annoyed that Mark had to freaking drap Nathan (and by default Haley) into Brooke and Peyton's nonsense just to "even the field".  And for me, it did further massacre Brooke's character.  Yes, Nathan and Peyton were broken up but as Brooke knew and acknowledged, they broke up all the time.  Not to mention, Nathan and Brooke hooked up like two seconds after they "broke up" so Brooke was just as bad/wrong as Leyton were in season 1, IMO.  After all the crap Brooke has thrown out, Peyton had every right to be angry and punch the girl in the face.  It just ticked me off that Mark had to reduce Brooke in order to "redeem" Peyton.

Regarding the confession, I don't think that Peyton should have said anything. Nothing good can come out of telling your friends you like their boyfriend/girlfriend. And the "missing him" comment, "do you love him" question and "I tried tears", made me question her motives a little bit. Having said that, I don't think that Peyton did this huge horrible thing. The logical reaction would have been for Brooke to be upset, maybe distance heself from Peyton for a while, ignore her, TALK to Lucas about it, and actually work on her relationship for the first time. But, with the way things went after 322, Brooke was destroyed beyond repair as far as I am concerned. I could never start caring about her character again. The most laughable part of season 4 was Breyton reunion. Nothing was solved even if I disregard the ridiculous sex tape. Why was Brooke okay with Leyton then? What changed for her to believe that Peyton was her friend? Speaking of the sex tape, while it was believable that Brooke and Nathan could have hooked up in the past, considering Brooke's character qualities in wasn't believable that she would have done it to her BFF. If anything, she was supposed to be loyal. Lucas, who annoyed me to no end after season 3, was even less believable for not having resented Brooke for how she treated him after the breakup, for not questioning what was it that Peyton told Brooke at the rehearsal dinner, and for having yet another epiphany.

Offline BiggestSophiaBushFan

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2013, 08:10:14 PM »
I've loved Brooke since the beginning!!She's the best!

Offline HaleyFan88

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2013, 06:17:33 AM »
Northlights ~

Yes, I agree with what you wrote concerning Brucas and Brooke.  And I always felt that when they finally did get together, their relationshp felt very one-sided with Lucas actually trying while Brooke continued whining and doubting it all.

And I do agree about Peyton - she NEVER should have said anything to Brooke, especially since Peyton knew how insecure Brooke was about Leyton.  That was stupid.  I just meant that I understand why she did it considering what happened in season 1; she wanted to be honest this time so I won't fault her for that reason - this was one of those times though when she should have just kept her mouth shut.  This was why I didn't mind Brooke in 322 during the Breyton scenes.  IMO, she had every right to react the ways she did.  I only had a problem with Brooke during the Brucas scenes.

I just could never get into the Breyton friendship.  It wasn't like I hated it but I hated how the writers portrayed it.  We were supposed to think in season 1 that they've been best friends for how many years but it didn't show onscreen for me.  Even before the BLP triangle began in season 1, they didn't seem as "close" as the writers tried to make them appear in later seasons.  Season 2 was kind of nice - I didn't love the girls but at least there were glimpses of why they're bffs.  I just thank God that my best friend and I aren't like Brooke and Peyton in real life.  We've had our hard times and fights for sure but we have never betrayed and been as hurtful as these two have been.  And I'll tell you one thing, I would never be able to forgive my friend if she ever made such disgusting comments about either of my parents.  It's despicable actually.  I hated how Breyton never talked about that.  Did Brooke ever even apologize for that?  I don't think she did but please correct me if I'm wrong.  Lord knows they've talked Peyton's mistakes to death but big surprise - Brooke's were glossed over.  I couldn't get into their friendship because it seemed "fake" to me.  I use quotes because I know they're friends but I always felt a sense of facade behind it. After 416 (415 even towards the end of the episode), it was as if everything was "okay" once again.  I mean, come on - the whole season up until this point was filled with Brooke throwing out nothing but mean, hurtful jabs but Peyton says "I'm done and don't care anymore" and suddenly Brooke's all "she cares, she cares!" to Mouth and everything's better.  Give me a break.  Where was Brooke's apology?  Where was the discussion of Brooke beind a bitch and all of her mistakes?  I've heard people say Peyton was Mark's favorite (I hardly ever pay attention to behind-the-scenes type of stuff, especially if it doesn't involve the actors themselves) but if anything, I would think Brooke was based on everything.  Not that I care about that at all.  I just find it hard to believe that Peyton would be Mark's favorite with the way he writes for her, Brooke, and Breyton.

Season 4 Brooke was awful on so many levels.  Here are some examples (minus Brucas/Breyton since we've been covering that):

1) She starts sleeping with her teacher (which is just ridiculous and stupid) and is then surprised when the guy cheats on her.  I'm sorry but I actually laughed during that Brachel scene in 407 when Brooke was crying.  Come on, Brooke - don't be an idiot.  What did you expect?

2) This is a very small one but the Baley scene in 405 always bothered me.  I know it was supposed to be funny and I didn't hate it or think Brooke was "awful" - I just thought she was a little insensitive towards Haley with the way she outed her pregnancy like that.  Haley was clearly embarrassed and uncomfortable as she tugged on Brooke's pant leg, wanting her to stop but that didn't matter.  Brooke kept on going because she was more concerned with the student body knowing she wasn't pregnant.  I know it's a small thing but it always bothered me.

3) Stealing the tests.  Okay, I don't think this was "awful" either (the act itself) but the aftermath of it was.  This cost Haley her job and I'm sorry but Brooke was once again only thinking and caring about herself.  She lied straight to Haley's face like it was the easiest thing in the world.  Brooke cared very little about her friend in this scene.  And that apology in 417, sorry but I found it so hollow sounding.  And I hate how Haley was just all "oh, it's okay - blah, blah, blah".  Seriously Haley, get out of Brooke's ass.  Another thing that bothered me was 414 - the Brachel scene.  I think it was really crappy of Brooke not to go after Rachel.  I don't care that Rachel told her not to.  If that were my friend, I would have went home with her and comforted her, made sure she was really okay - especially if it was partly my fault.  But nope, Brooke went right back inside (outside) so she could be with Chase and showed very little concern for Rachel after.  Brooke did something similar in 210.  Peyton came to her at the end, crying and saying she needed her best friend.  Felix comes out, Peyton leaves and Brooke forgets all about her friend and starts making out with Felix.  That scene always bothered me as did the Brachel one.

Speaking of - the Brachel friendship which (sorry, pausing to laugh)...was so ridiculous.  I'm not discounting their friendship but seriously, these girls went from hating one another to suddenly being bffs.  I know that can happen, I just didn't find it believable or enjoyable to watch.  All these two girls were good at together was getting in and causing trouble.  The only reason these two became friends was because of the Breyton drama.  That friendship also felt pretty one-sided to me.  Believe me, I'm no Rachel fan but season 4 was always about Rachel helping Brooke - giving her a place to live, helping her steal the tests, switching the tests and taking the fall.  I liked that Brooke was the one to help Rachel in season 5...well, at least try to help considering Rachel left.  Their friendship was just funny to me.  I like the fast forward button during them.  :)

All of the things I've been saying in this thread are the reasons why I liked Brooke in the beginning and less and less as the seasons continued (season 5 excluded).  Brooke has this "I'm right, you're wrong"/"my way or the highway" type of attitude.  She's had it since season 2 and it kind of turned me off of the character.  I honestly like Brooke in a general sense but I hated her A LOT!  She was the only character, IMO, who got away with everything.  Most of the times, I couldn't sympathize with her because she caused a lot of her problems on her own and she hardly ever apologized for it.  And when she did apologize for her words/actions, her apology usually sounded really hollow; they sounded like just words with no true feelings behind them.  And to add to it, the other characters forgave her in an instant.  Brooke never truly had to "pay" for anything.  She got let off the hook so fast and easily.  Not to character compare but most of the other characters (specifically Haley and Peyton) had to fight tooth and nail for forgiveness and some fans still criticize them for breathing while gloss over everything Brooke has done as if nothing ever happened.  Haley, even as my favorite - I have never glossed over her mistakes like the tour/Chris.  I've forgiven her for it because she's actually sincere and had to work for it.  Some fans have blinders on regarding their faves.  One of the things I loved about Haley were her mistakes - not the actions themselves (I hated those) but the way those mistakes helped mold her into the person she became.  But even with that, she was wrong.  I've seen fans of all characters who think their faves can literally do no wrong.  It's annoying but what can you do.  It's annoying but what can you do.  It's their right to have that opinion.  :)

Wow, what a long post?  Haha!!

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2013, 11:53:12 AM »
I just could never get into the Breyton friendship.  It wasn't like I hated it but I hated how the writers portrayed it.  We were supposed to think in season 1 that they've been best friends for how many years but it didn't show onscreen for me.  Even before the BLP triangle began in season 1, they didn't seem as "close" as the writers tried to make them appear in later seasons.  Season 2 was kind of nice - I didn't love the girls but at least there were glimpses of why they're bffs.  I just thank God that my best friend and I aren't like Brooke and Peyton in real life.  We've had our hard times and fights for sure but we have never betrayed and been as hurtful as these two have been.  And I'll tell you one thing, I would never be able to forgive my friend if she ever made such disgusting comments about either of my parents.  It's despicable actually.  I hated how Breyton never talked about that.  Did Brooke ever even apologize for that?  I don't think she did but please correct me if I'm wrong.  Lord knows they've talked Peyton's mistakes to death but big surprise - Brooke's were glossed over.  I couldn't get into their friendship because it seemed "fake" to me.  I use quotes because I know they're friends but I always felt a sense of facade behind it. After 416 (415 even towards the end of the episode), it was as if everything was "okay" once again.  I mean, come on - the whole season up until this point was filled with Brooke throwing out nothing but mean, hurtful jabs but Peyton says "I'm done and don't care anymore" and suddenly Brooke's all "she cares, she cares!" to Mouth and everything's better.  Give me a break.  Where was Brooke's apology?  Where was the discussion of Brooke beind a bitch and all of her mistakes?  I've heard people say Peyton was Mark's favorite (I hardly ever pay attention to behind-the-scenes type of stuff, especially if it doesn't involve the actors themselves) but if anything, I would think Brooke was based on everything.  Not that I care about that at all.  I just find it hard to believe that Peyton would be Mark's favorite with the way he writes for her, Brooke, and Breyton.

They mentioned the mom comments once, after the fight with Psycho Derek, and that was it. Considering how hurt Peyton was about that, and rightfully so, I don't think it was realistic that she just got over it. I believed they had a good friendship up until season 4. It was a little weird that Peyton seemed cold to Brooke at times early season 1, but other than that it looked like a typical high school friendship. And even after the cheating there was real remorse on Peyton's part. Brooke, on the other hand, was devastated and it was shown that what happened deeply affected both of them. I did not get that feeling in season 4. The Breyton reunion in season 1 was done in a much better way than in season 4. Peyton gave Lucas up and, in a way, she paid the price, at the same time she showed to Brooke that she valued their friendship more. There's no way that Peyton and Brooke would have been friends after season 1 had Peyton stayed with Lucas, IMO. After all, Brooke befriended Peyton again only after Peyton too was hurt by Lucas. But in season 4 they became BFF's instantly, without an explanation. Nothing was resolved, I couldn't understand why didn't it bother Brooke that Peyton was with Lucas then. And how was it that Peyton just ignored Brooke's behavior since the confession? It would have been the same if Nathan just embraced Haley when she knocked on his doors after the tour, or if Brooke immediately took Lucas back after he told her he wanted to be with her. Those two storylines were good because the writers took the time to reconnect the character slowly and in a realistic way. Amends had to be made. Forgiveness takes time. So it was very disappointing to see that the writers felt the need to destroy both characters and to reunite them disregarding all of their issues in the process.

Season 4 Brooke was awful on so many levels.  Here are some examples (minus Brucas/Breyton since we've been covering that):

1) She starts sleeping with her teacher (which is just ridiculous and stupid) and is then surprised when the guy cheats on her.  I'm sorry but I actually laughed during that Brachel scene in 407 when Brooke was crying.  Come on, Brooke - don't be an idiot.  What did you expect?

2) This is a very small one but the Baley scene in 405 always bothered me.  I know it was supposed to be funny and I didn't hate it or think Brooke was "awful" - I just thought she was a little insensitive towards Haley with the way she outed her pregnancy like that.  Haley was clearly embarrassed and uncomfortable as she tugged on Brooke's pant leg, wanting her to stop but that didn't matter.  Brooke kept on going because she was more concerned with the student body knowing she wasn't pregnant.  I know it's a small thing but it always bothered me.

3) Stealing the tests.  Okay, I don't think this was "awful" either (the act itself) but the aftermath of it was.  This cost Haley her job and I'm sorry but Brooke was once again only thinking and caring about herself.  She lied straight to Haley's face like it was the easiest thing in the world.  Brooke cared very little about her friend in this scene.  And that apology in 417, sorry but I found it so hollow sounding.  And I hate how Haley was just all "oh, it's okay - blah, blah, blah".  Seriously Haley, get out of Brooke's ass.  Another thing that bothered me was 414 - the Brachel scene.  I think it was really crappy of Brooke not to go after Rachel.  I don't care that Rachel told her not to.  If that were my friend, I would have went home with her and comforted her, made sure she was really okay - especially if it was partly my fault.  But nope, Brooke went right back inside (outside) so she could be with Chase and showed very little concern for Rachel after.  Brooke did something similar in 210.  Peyton came to her at the end, crying and saying she needed her best friend.  Felix comes out, Peyton leaves and Brooke forgets all about her friend and starts making out with Felix.  That scene always bothered me as did the Brachel one.

Brooke sleeping with her teacher made me think that Brooke wasn't really heartbroken about breaking up with Lucas. She got over him so fast that I had trouble believing she was much into him in the first place. It wasn't just a one night stand, she wanted a real relationship and while it lasted she seemed much happier than she ever was with Lucas. She also got into Chase very quickly. It looked like Brooke got over guys and into them really, really fast. I'm not talking about hooking up, but her feelings. Complete contradiction of Broke's character seasons 1-3.

Baley friendship also didn't seem genuine to me. If they were such good friends, how come Brooke couldn't confide in Haley about Peyton's confession, her new boyfriend Nick, having problems with calculus... Haley didn't even know that Brooke broke up with Lucas until 403, for crying out loud. If Haley trusted her with something important as her pregnancy, why Brooke couldn't do the same?
Stealing the test was just another reason I never believed they were such good friends in season 4. Not only you don't do that to your friends, but it showed that Brooke was prepared to walk over anyone who stand in her way.

Speaking of - the Brachel friendship which (sorry, pausing to laugh)...was so ridiculous.  I'm not discounting their friendship but seriously, these girls went from hating one another to suddenly being bffs.  I know that can happen, I just didn't find it believable or enjoyable to watch.  All these two girls were good at together was getting in and causing trouble.  The only reason these two became friends was because of the Breyton drama.  That friendship also felt pretty one-sided to me.  Believe me, I'm no Rachel fan but season 4 was always about Rachel helping Brooke - giving her a place to live, helping her steal the tests, switching the tests and taking the fall.  I liked that Brooke was the one to help Rachel in season 5...well, at least try to help considering Rachel left.  Their friendship was just funny to me.  I like the fast forward button during them.  :)

I know that the writers felt that Brooke needed someone to be friends with, since Peyton was gone and she couldn't talk to Haley cause then it would have been impossible to keep Lucas in the dark about the confession, hence Rachel...but, um...no. Just no. One second they are pulling each others hair and the next Rachel is inviting Brooke to live with her? Where did that come from? Considering how unforgiving Brooke was, I just could not see her befriending a girl who spread the rumors about her being pregnant, defended Peyton's actions, tried to seduce her friend's husband, told her she'd be a terrible mother and so on... All that after they became "friends".
Rachel in general was the most pointless character on the show. What purpose did she serve exactly, other that to show how to be a horrible human being and get away with it? Her way of "helping" Brooke was pimping her online and getting her in trouble with the test. I don't excuse Brooke for her part in it but Rachel's way of helping was like, if you need money your friend offers you to help you rob a bank. And it made Brooke seem really stupid for believing Rachel was actually going to help her with her ridiculous Austin Powers - like plans. But even in this "friendship" it was Brooke who gave nothing and took as much as she could.
I may be hard on Rachel, and that's because I did not see one good thing she did during her run on the show.

All of the things I've been saying in this thread are the reasons why I liked Brooke in the beginning and less and less as the seasons continued (season 5 excluded).  Brooke has this "I'm right, you're wrong"/"my way or the highway" type of attitude.  She's had it since season 2 and it kind of turned me off of the character.  I honestly like Brooke in a general sense but I hated her A LOT!  She was the only character, IMO, who got away with everything.  Most of the times, I couldn't sympathize with her because she caused a lot of her problems on her own and she hardly ever apologized for it.  And when she did apologize for her words/actions, her apology usually sounded really hollow; they sounded like just words with no true feelings behind them.  And to add to it, the other characters forgave her in an instant.  Brooke never truly had to "pay" for anything.  She got let off the hook so fast and easily.  Not to character compare but most of the other characters (specifically Haley and Peyton) had to fight tooth and nail for forgiveness and some fans still criticize them for breathing while gloss over everything Brooke has done as if nothing ever happened.  Haley, even as my favorite - I have never glossed over her mistakes like the tour/Chris.  I've forgiven her for it because she's actually sincere and had to work for it.  Some fans have blinders on regarding their faves.  One of the things I loved about Haley were her mistakes - not the actions themselves (I hated those) but the way those mistakes helped mold her into the person she became.  But even with that, she was wrong.  I've seen fans of all characters who think their faves can literally do no wrong.  It's annoying but what can you do.  It's annoying but what can you do.  It's their right to have that opinion.  :)

The most annoying part of Brooke was her getting of easy. Whatever she did, all she had to do is to say she was sorry and that was it.

Messing with Naley, trying to sabotage Leyton hooking up, lying to Lucas about being pregnant, sleeping with Keller, the mom comments, treatment of Lucas early season 4, stealing the test and lying to Haley about it, believing Nick over Rachel and being a bitch to her, sleeping with Nathan.... For all of these things simple "I'm sorry" was enough, and sometimes not even that. She was always forgiven instantly and never had to grovel for forgiveness. To actually show that she was sorry and not just repeating it like a parrot. That is the main reason I wasn't even convinced she was truly sorry for any of these things. And it was hypocritical that Brooke was never able to forgive others when they wronged her.
Despite all of that, I could accept that flaw while she had other qualities before season 4. After 401 I simply did not care about her.

Wow, what a long post?  Haha!!

That's all right. I quite enjoy these discussions. ;)

Offline HaleyFan88

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Re: Brooke at the beginning
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2013, 10:07:27 AM »
Oh my gosh, it has been so long since I've been online.  Sorry for leaving you hanging with our discussion, Northlights.  :) I've had a really busy and hectic month surrounding my work.  Anyway...

Thanks for reminding me about the Breyton moment in 416.  I think I've only seen that episode once since, IMO, it sucked so I don't exactly remember it.  Haha!  I agree with you about the progression with the Breyton friendship in season 1 and in season 4.  While I'm not a Breyton fan, their reconnecting in seasons 1 and even 2 were done so much better.  Season 4 was just...I don't even know - horrible.  The consistency with Brooke's anger seemed...well, inconsistant.  LOL!  For as much grief as she gave to Peyton during season 4, for her to just seemingly forgive her like that was a joke.  And I've said it before but it was mostly all about Brooke's forgiveness of Peyton and Peyton's wrong doings - what about all the horrible things Brooke did over the course of their "separation"?

And I agree about Brooke and Mr. Chavez (was that his name?).  This is why I never really felt for Brooke during the Brucas/Leyton triangle (season 1 aside) - she didn't seem all that heartbroken over "losing" Lucas.  First off, she broke up with him and never once fought for him (insert hypocrisy for her treatment of him).  And secondly, she started hooking up with her teacher so quickly after the breakup.  Oh yeah - she sure was grieving.  ::)

I didn't mind the Baley friendship - seasons 4 and 8 (even 9) aside.  They did feel genuine to me except those seasons I mentioned - well, Haley's side still felt genuine during those.  Brooke was such a horrible friend to Haley in season 4.  The things she did - you don't do to your friends.  In season 8, I think that was more of the writers and their obvious want to make things all about Brooke so they only decided to show Haley supporting/propping Brooke.  That's the way I saw it anyway.  But the other seasons, I really loved Baley - especially seasons 3 and 7.

Your post about the Brachel "friendship" are my thoughts exactly.  They were so toxic and ridiculous together.  They made absolutely no sense as friends considering their history and as you said, Brooke's inability to forgive others without making them grovel.  I don't remember Rachel ever groveling so...you get it.  :)

I still get frustrated (in fictional land) by Brooke getting away with everything and never having to pay for any of the truly heinous things she did over the years.  She gets painted as this totally selfless, heart-of-gold character by a lot of people, and I just didn't see it that way.  Did she do selfless things - yes, absolutely.  But not moreso than any of the others, IMO. My biggest issue with Brooke was like I just said - she got away with everything and never had to pay.  It made me like her less and less.

I've developed a 1-5 ranking (1 being bad; 5 being good) for Brooke (all the characters really)...
Season 1 - 4.5
Season 2 - 3
Season 3 - 3
Season 4 - 0
Season 5 - 5
Season 6 - 3.5
Season 7 - 3.5
Season 8 - 0
Season 9 - 1

This is just my way of expressing my rankings of Brooke during specific seasons considering I didn't love/hate her in a general sense.  I liked her in a general sense but sometimes loved/hated her.  :)