Author Topic: Brooke in 322  (Read 7540 times)

Offline NiceLegsNiceHands

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2013, 08:22:47 PM »
I think like I said before she was internalizing it. She may not have been like going around being pathetic and trying to get Lucas to pay attention to her, but just because she didn't outwardly show it, I do believe she was keeping it inside and then she couldn't anymore, especially when she was already dealing with insecurities about Peyton/Lucas, and to find out they kissed and that Peyton had feelings for Lucas again, tipped her over the edge. Brooke is not nor has ever been dumb. She knew what was going to happen next, considering she had already lived it and made the decision for Luke to end it. And as you can see, it didn't take long for Lucas to prove her right.

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Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 10:08:58 PM »
It took even less for Brooke to hook up with a random guy and start a new relationship.

Brooke's problem was that she didn't give their relationship a new start. And as for not outwardly showing her struggle I would say the non exclusive dating, making a scene with Rachel in the car, sleeping with Chris Keller, commenting that Lucas is with his other girlfriend, freaking out and storming off in the rain for no reason, immediately assuming that LP slept together in 314 and so on was not internalizing it.

Whatever happened next was Brooke's own doing. Up to 409 Lucas didn't show any romantic feelings for Peyton. She dumped him with no explanation, shot him down whenever he tried to talk to her, started and ended a relationship with her teacher....and he was supposed to mope and wait for her to come back to him? I don't know any guy who would do that.

Offline NiceLegsNiceHands

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 11:42:24 PM »
Lucas was waiting for her until the banquet episode. It wasn't until they both agreed they weren't a forever love that he moved on with Peyton. I don't blame Brooke for dating after the breakup. She isn't responsible for lucas' actions. And I was referring to the time when they were exclusively dating in season three. The stuff bwlefore that didn't affect the breakup. It was everything after the shooting and Lucas shutting her out afterwards that led to the breakup. She was mad about him not letting her in when he was grieving and instead talked to Peyton and other people who were in the school. And I agree with Brooke there. All she wanted was for him to need her and want her back and he never gave her his whole heart.
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Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2013, 06:57:01 AM »
I don't think Lucas was necessarily waiting for Brooke until the banquet episode, he even said he wasn't sure about dating Brooke again and was completely surprised when she showed up at his house. Brooke started a new relationship too soon IMO, if she was so in love with Lucas and only broke up with him because of the Peyton stuff. I don't think that was it.

Lucas didn't do anything wrong this time around, Brooke said so herself in their breakup. He was a better boyfriend than the average guy. And unlike Brooke, Lucas did fight for her. He fought to be in that relationship. He worked his ass of all through season 2 just to be friends with her and supported her throughout every one of her instadreams. For the first half of season 3 he waited while she made out with other guys and went skinny dipping. Lucas fought for Brooke when any other guy would have not, considering her behavior. He forgave her for sleeping with Chris, while she has never been able to forgive him for season 1 and was always holding that over his head. Brooke, on the other hand, never fought for Lucas....and gave up on their relationship after the first bump on the road.

After the shooting Lucas' reaction was normal if you ask me. He just lost someone who was practically a father to him, it's normal to retreat into himself after that. After some time he talked to her and told her about his memories with Keith. It takes time. He did not speak about that with anybody else, not with Peyton, Haley, Nathan...or even his mother.

Lucas made a substantial effort to include Brooke into his world, or "let her in". He took her to the rivercourt and told her how much it meant to him, he gave her speeches, wrote her letters, talked to her about Keith....what else was he supposed to do? She told him she wanted a non exclusive relationship, he agreed. She wanted him to fight for her, he did. She wanted him to let her in, to save her....she was always dictating and he always tried to comply. If she expected too much of him then he didn't stand a chance. It seems to me that she expected much more from Lucas then she did expect from anyone else after him.

Lucas should have told her that Peyton kissed him. That's the only thing he did wrong in their relationship IMO. But it wasn't some huge thing to deserve getting dumped over it. In all the other relationships throughout the show couples did not tell each other everything at first, or at all. But Lucas is a jackass because he did not share everything with Brooke right away.... I don't get it.

Offline NiceLegsNiceHands

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2013, 12:48:07 PM »
I don't think you're understanding why the kiss was such a big deal to Brooke. It goes back to season 1 and why she was dumped by Lucas the first time around. It wasn't because of anything she did or didn't do. She got dumped because Lucas wanted Peyton. When Lucas begged for another chance she gave it to him and I don't think she ever got over the hurt of what happened the first time. It's why it was brought up repeatedly in season 3 when both Lucas and Peyton tried to reassure her that they weren't getting back together and Lucas wasn't in love with Peyton. But in the end, their talk was cheap, because they did end up back together. Peyton told her flat out multiple times she didn't have feelings for Lucas in season 3 and then drops a bombshell on Brooke in the finale, and then Lucas made it worse by telling Brooke that he shared a kiss with Peyton. She was already vulnerable and guarded because of what happened the first time and it's ludicrous to think that Brooke was just going to be, "Oh you kissed your ex, my best friend, AGAIN? No problem, dude." That's preposterous. I don't know anyone who would have just been okay with that. Haley wasn't when Nanny Carrie kissed Nate and got into the shower with him in season 5, but somehow Brooke is stupid and wrong because she broke up with Lucas, because she understood that Lucas had pulled away from her and she didn't want to fight it anymore?

Just because Lucas fought for her in season 3 and forgave her for Chris, does not make him a paragon of virtue. His past mistakes colored their relationship, because he hurt Brooke very deeply the first time around. In this case the phrase, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" applies. Brooke was not an idiot and she knew that Lucas was slipping away and she didn't want to fight the inevitable anymore. Whether or not Lucas was aware of his feelings for Peyton does not diminish them. He clearly still loved Peyton and Brooke knew it, which is why she walked away.

As for the reaction Lucas had after the shooting, all people deal with grief and sorrow differently. His reaction is not "normal", as there is no normal when it comes to grief. Many people rely heavily on the person they are with/dating/married to for support and for someone to help them through it. Lucas is not like that, granted, but Brooke wanted him to need her or at least include her, because she wanted to be there for him and because she loved Keith too. Lucas did talk to Peyton by the way after the shooting.

Also, being let into someone's world is NOT the same as being letting into their heart. Lucas never gave her full access, whereas, he did to Peyton. Peyton and Lucas understood each other on a level that Brooke never could, because Lucas kept up his guard around her.

As for who came after him, her relationship with Chase was more give and take, and I think she learned for her past mistakes with Lucas.

As for who she ultimately ended up with, Julian fought for her more than Lucas ever did and in the end, she trusted her heartagain and allowed herself to love and ended up with the love of her life.

I am a huge Lucas/Peyton fan and Peyton is my favorite character, but I think it's ridiculous to make Brooke out to the bad person in this situation. She was hurt by Lucas and Peyton repeatedly in high school and she developed a defense mechanism because of it, which lasted until she met Julian and fell in love with him. I don't blame Brooke. I don't believe she did nothing wrong in season 3, and felt the breakup was due to both of them not communicating their needs and wants, but Lucas is not exempt here, nor does he get a free pass either. He has never been perfect, and certainly not in season 3.
"We're circling each other like Venezuelan flamingoes engaged in a complex mating dance."
-Ed and Carol, destine to be together.

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2013, 04:52:39 PM »
I don't think you're understanding why the kiss was such a big deal to Brooke. It goes back to season 1 and why she was dumped by Lucas the first time around. It wasn't because of anything she did or didn't do. She got dumped because Lucas wanted Peyton. When Lucas begged for another chance she gave it to him and I don't think she ever got over the hurt of what happened the first time.

That would make sense to me if she just took him back after the cheating, but it was not so. He worked to earn her trust back for months. First just to be friends, and then romantically. He was there for her whenever she needed him, from fixing her windshield, helping her with her election speech to arranging for her to stay in Tree Hill and giving her his room. But even after all that, and what happened at the beginning of season 3, it was like none of that mattered. The only thing that mattered to her was that she got cheated in the past. She never should have started dating him again if she could not get over it and forgive. Like she was forgiven for lying about being pregnant, sleeping with Chris, sleeping with Nathan, stealing the test and getting Haley firedÖ

It's why it was brought up repeatedly in season 3 when both Lucas and Peyton tried to reassure her that they weren't getting back together and Lucas wasn't in love with Peyton. But in the end, their talk was cheap, because they did end up back together.

Lucas wasnít in love with Peyton while he was with Brooke. He was a friend to her. Regardless of how people interpret Lucasí feelings in season 3, we as viewers did not see any indication that he was interested in Peyton romantically. It just wasnít there. You can say that Peyton had romantic feelings for Lucas, because it was hinted several times but Lucas was completely in love with Brooke. If Brookeís assumptions were right at that time we would have seen Lucas and Peyton together the very next episode like in season 1.

Peyton told her flat out multiple times she didn't have feelings for Lucas in season 3 and then drops a bombshell on Brooke in the finale, and then Lucas made it worse by telling Brooke that he shared a kiss with Peyton. She was already vulnerable and guarded because of what happened the first time and it's ludicrous to think that Brooke was just going to be, "Oh you kissed your ex, my best friend, AGAIN? No problem, dude." That's preposterous. I don't know anyone who would have just been okay with that. Haley wasn't when Nanny Carrie kissed Nate and got into the shower with him in season 5, but somehow Brooke is stupid and wrong because she broke up with Lucas, because she understood that Lucas had pulled away from her and she didn't want to fight it anymore?

Haley wasnít okay with it but in the end she worked on her relationship, which is something Brooke never did. Brookeís reaction was understandable in 322 when she was upset, her reaction in season 4 was not. She did not even try. That was the time for her to start fighting for their relationship, and Lucas even told her in 403 that she never did that.

By not telling her about the kiss Lucas pulled away? Did she pull away from him when she did not tell him about kissing Pete, about her fear of being alone, that she misses her parents and they never call her, or about what Peyton confessed to her? Honesty is a two way street. I canít remember one single scene, aside from 317, when Brooke shared something personal with Lucas in season 3.


Just because Lucas fought for her in season 3 and forgave her for Chris, does not make him a paragon of virtue. His past mistakes colored their relationship, because he hurt Brooke very deeply the first time around. In this case the phrase, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" applies. Brooke was not an idiot and she knew that Lucas was slipping away and she didn't want to fight the inevitable anymore. Whether or not Lucas was aware of his feelings for Peyton does not diminish them. He clearly still loved Peyton and Brooke knew it, which is why she walked away.

Again, I understand that you ship LP and believe that Lucas always loved Peyton romantically but I go by what I actually see on the screen. And I did not see that Lucas loved Peyton in season 3. The whole concept of ďburied feelingsĒ is ridiculous to me.

And if Lucasí past mistakes colored their relationship, then why didnít Brookeís past mistakes color their relationship? Why does she get a free pass? She resented Lucas for bringing up the Chris incident while they were fighting about something that had very much to do with season 1 cheating. Pretty ironic, huh? So Lucas is supposed to grovel for forgiveness for the rest of time and still not be fully forgiven while Brooke is forgiven in few days and itís not to be mentioned again. Thatís something that always bothered me about Brooke. She is easily forgiven for any mistake she makes but when she is wronged she holds grudges.

As for the reaction Lucas had after the shooting, all people deal with grief and sorrow differently. His reaction is not "normal", as there is no normal when it comes to grief. Many people rely heavily on the person they are with/dating/married to for support and for someone to help them through it. Lucas is not like that, granted, but Brooke wanted him to need her or at least include her, because she wanted to be there for him and because she loved Keith too. Lucas did talk to Peyton by the way after the shooting.

Yes he did. He told her how completely in love with Brooke he was. And he did include Brooke in his recovery process, it just didnít happen right that instant. But by the end of the day he came to her. If Brooke was holding Lucasí behavior after that tragedy against him then it paints her in a very bad light as far as I am concerned. At least that one time it wasnít all about her and her needs. She was supposed to be the understanding girlfriend and let Lucas deal with it in his own way offering help when he is ready and asks for it.

Also, being let into someone's world is NOT the same as being letting into their heart. Lucas never gave her full access, whereas, he did to Peyton.

How? Iím simply curious as to what did he do with Peyten that he didnít do with Brooke. To me, it was the same. Lucas is that type of person, he doesnít share everything with his girlfriend. He did not tell Peyton in season 4 about Dan and the school shooting for example.

As for who came after him, her relationship with Chase was more give and take, and I think she learned for her past mistakes with Lucas.

Her relationship with Chase looked like a joke to me compared to the other relationships on the show like BL, LP, NH, JPÖ It came out of the blue and vanished without the trace in a matter of few episodes.

As for who she ultimately ended up with, Julian fought for her more than Lucas ever did and in the end, she trusted her heartagain and allowed herself to love and ended up with the love of her life.

I disagree. Julian actually broke up with her when she became irrational. He did not comply with her demand to stop working with Alex. The difference is that Brooke ultimately tried and saved her relationship with Julian. It was in Brooke's hands in both cases. Her insecurities were completely hers to work through, nobody could have done it for her. And thatís okay if she didnít want to work on her relationship with Lucas and did want to work on her relationship with Julian. But it was not Lucasí fault like so many people say. He was not the reason Brucas ended the second time around. Brookeí insecurities were. It wasnít a healthy relationship IMO. Everything seemed to be on Brookeís terms and she was always dictating. They werenít equals in the relationship.

I am a huge Lucas/Peyton fan and Peyton is my favorite character, but I think it's ridiculous to make Brooke out to the bad person in this situation. She was hurt by Lucas and Peyton repeatedly in high school and she developed a defense mechanism because of it, which lasted until she met Julian and fell in love with him. I don't blame Brooke. I don't believe she did nothing wrong in season 3, and felt the breakup was due to both of them not communicating their needs and wants, but Lucas is not exempt here, nor does he get a free pass either. He has never been perfect, and certainly not in season 3.

Well, I see it differently. While I agree she was hurt by Peyton repeatedly, I think Lucas hurt her only in season 1. But I feel that he more than made up for it by the time Brucas were done. Others may see it differently but to me her expectations of him were impossible to meet. Iím not saying Lucas was perfect, he did make some mistakes but nothing that would make him to be the bad guy this time around.

Brooke ruined her own relationship. Instead of trusting her boyfriend she decided to end it. That is, of course, her right if she thought thatís the best thing for her but in that case I do hold her responsible for it. Either you trust your significant other and start a relationship with him/her or you donít and donít become involved. In any case, you canít do both.

Offline BiggestSophiaBushFan

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2013, 01:38:59 PM »
Could you trust a boyfriend who cheated on you with your best friend? Not really IMO.

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2013, 02:35:35 PM »
Then why would you start a relationship with him in the first place? She supposedly "forgave" them for that, right?

Offline sedge01

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2013, 02:51:38 PM »
Lucas supposedly forgave her for Chris so why bring that up again,

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2013, 03:03:14 PM »
I never said that was right. But somehow the consensus seems to be that Brooke is allowed to constantly hold history over Lucas' head and when Lucas does it one time he is a jerk.

Anyway, that's not the point. My question is why did Brooke start a relationship with someone who she clearly couldn't trust? She can't be the victim if she knew she wasn't ready to trust him fully from the beginning. If anything, Lucas was being led on in that case...

Online Liz

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2013, 03:33:46 PM »
Then why would you start a relationship with him in the first place? She supposedly "forgave" them for that, right?


THIS! Brooke set herself up IMO. she chose to go with Lucas again. Se had too many insecurities. Even when they got together in Season 3 it was after finding the Peyton box & worrying every time he is with Peyton. That's not a good relationship from the start.

Offline sedge01

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2013, 05:24:16 PM »
I think that it's funny that this thread started on how well Sophia portrayed Brooke in this episode when she was going through all the drama with chad and their divorce, now it's turned into lets bash brooke for all of season 3.

Offline Northlights

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2013, 05:59:37 PM »
Not everybody have the same opinion on this. As long as people use arguments to back their claims I don't see the reason to get upset.

Online Liz

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2013, 10:51:58 PM »
Not everybody have the same opinion on this. As long as people use arguments to back their claims I don't see the reason to get upset.

Thank you.

Also, I don't hate Brooke in season 3. I actually liked her. I just think she was setting herself up for failure getting back together with Lucas with all the left over insecurities.

Offline HaleyFan88

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Re: Brooke in 322
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2013, 01:12:56 PM »
Sophia was phenominal in this whole episode.  I honestly think this was her best work - ever!  It was full os such raw emotion, and she broke my heart.  I wasn't even necessarily on Brooke's "side" during this episode, but I was blown away by Sophia's acting.  She made me want to be.  :)